Phil
98' Classic "Eppy"
ISRA #867
I have found recently that riding in the rain or on damp roads gets me so uptight and tense. I end up gripping so tightly on to the bars that it's giving me real concerns. The back wheel has stepped out a couple of times in the dry, so 2 up in the rain has made me paranoidally (If there is such a word), safe and god forbid that i use the front brake. Please give me loads of replies of "Yes i get that too Phil", even if only to humour me.

Al Setzer ISRA # 0671
'99 V-Star 1100 Red "BoyToy"
Lynnwood, Washington, USA
The problems are much the same as those you face with the family cage: reduced stopping ability, etc. and the precautions are similar: more distance, closer attention, etc. Becoming "one-with-the-road" is more than a Zen concept. IMHO, one of the worst things to do is to clutch-up. Keep relaxed, and drive carefully and you should do fine. Try it slowly and build your confidence.

Sally - ISRA #0038
'98 V-Star Classic Black
Tehachapi, CA
You might want to try what I'm planning on (I have to wait for winter though) - practice. And I'd start off by practicing by yourself, rather than 2 up. Try starting and stopping until you figure out where the traction brakes on acceleration and braking. The MSF course here teaches to use both front and rear brakes all the time. 90% of your stopping power is in the front - but that doesn't mean you're more likely to lock up the front wheel. If you apply both brakes with the same amount of pressure, 90% of your stopping power will come from the front. You'll get over it in time, I'm sure. Hope some of htis helps. Jamie (England) Just ride ever so smooth, use the engine combined with the brakes and do all your slowing down while upright and straight. Be very slight with throttling on or off while in the bend. Just take every thing like you were ridding your test with your mother on the back Only good thing about riding in all weathers is that it will boost your riding skill and ability to cope with the unexpected.

John - ISRA #103
Just try to relax, look ahead of you and gently accelerate out of the bends. I'm thinking of taking one of the advanced riding courses with my missus now that she's passed her test. You might want to try one too everyone says they're great confidence builders.

Shane Brown
ISRA#780
Manassas, VA
Last weekend I took the advanced rider training and it rained all afternoon while we were out on the bikes. They first had us get up to 25 mph and then lock the back brake up, I guess so we would know what it felt like. Then they had us get up to 25 mph and stop as fast as we could using both brakes without locking up either wheel. I found out I use too much back brake. After 4 or 5 tries, I discovered that I could stop pretty fast on the wet pavement without locking up. They also had us doing some cornering and swerving exercises that I would have never attempted on my own on wet pavement, but everything went very well. Overall, it was a great experience and I have a lot more confidence riding in the rain now.

Ronn (San Diego)
Black '98 V-Star Classic
You're much more likely to get into trouble locking up your rear brake. You should get in the habit of relying mostly on your front brake - especially in wet conditions. I only use the rear when I'm coasting to a stop at a light or in the garage.

Bill Hamm - ISRA#729
green/white '99 classic
You really should use the rear too, all the time, the rear provides about 20% of the stopping power, and using only the front will mean that eventually the back tire's gonna try to pass the front.

Ronn (San Diego)
Not really, Bill. The rear SHOULD provide about 20% of the stopping power (under normal conditions over 20mph). As for the "back tire's gonna try to pass the front" you may be referring to high-siding which is caused by using too much rear brake (losing traction) then releasing. (see following from Jim Davis' tips site at http://home.earthlink.net/~eca/TIP001.html )

"To begin with, a high-side starts when you use so much rear brake pressure that you lock your rear wheel. If you are in a curve, or if you have also applied your front brake while going in a straight line, or if there is substantial road camber, or severely unbalanced loading of the motorcycle, this starts the rear end sliding/skewing away from the direction the bike had been moving because traction is diminished on the rear tire. (It has become 'sliding friction' - about 80% of what it was just prior to the skid.) That tire has begun to MOVE FASTER (in the direction of bike movement) than the front tire (centrifugal force, among others, is having its way.) The automatic, and correct, driver response to this situation is to turn the front wheel in the direction of the slide. [Actually, the front wheel will turn in the direction of the slide by itself - your job is merely to let it.] But now he can make a mistake that can cost him his life - he can release the rear brake..."

I don't recommend using ONLY the front brake. I recommend using MAINLY the front brake. 80% qualifies as mainly. The majority of riders I watch next to me on the freeway etc. seem to go for the rear first, as a reflex, and then the front as an afterthought. Could be a dangerous reflex if they're overzealous in a crisis. Your results may vary. Action figures sold separately.

Bill Hamm - ISRA#729
While indeed using the back too much can lead to premature lockup of the rear and that'll certainly caused it to skid, and could lead to a high-side (bad thing), it's not the only way the back of the bike can try to pass the front. Specially in a curve on less than ideal surfaces, if the back isn't braking with the front, the momentum (remembering that all the bike's mass is behind the braking front wheel) can also cause a skid just cause the rear of the bike is not being slowed at the same rate.

Al Setzer ISRA # 0671
What you do every day is most likely what you'll do in an emergency. Best to use the most effective stopping procedures all the time.

Pat 97
RSTD
The front brake is best because when you start the braking process, the weight of the bike shifts forward, away from the rear wheel. The front of the bike gets heavier, the rear lighter, which means that the rear wheel is easier to lock up, which is bad, because it's easier to lose control of the bike if the rear is locked up. When you lock up the rear, you lose the gyroscopic action of the spinning wheel. The rear end of the bike starts to overtake the front. If you're not trained to deal with this, it can end up in a low side, or worse, a high side crash. If you lock up the front, there isn't time to deal with it. You're on the ground. Period. So if you were to have a choice on which wheel to lock up, I suppose the rear would be the best one. But it'd be a dumb choice, because you should never lock up either wheel. Keep them on the ground and spinning. That way you've got max control, max braking power. You should apply the front brake gradually, giving the chassis time to settle in to crouch, the front end compresses applying more weight onto the front tire. Remember the rear is lightening up so stay off the rear brake or it might lock up. It's ok to use a little rear, but be careful. Once the bike is crouched toward the front end, you can apply quite a lot of force to the front brake without much fear of locking up. Just remember that it's a lot easier to lock up the front on wet or other slippery (sand, gravel, oil, whatever) surface than on dry asphalt, so when things are slippery, you've really got to adjust your speed to the conditions. You won't get much warning when that front locks up. Usually what happens is that something happens in front of you, you flinch and grab too much front brake, and the next thing you know you're nursing road rash and repairing a busted bike.

Bill Hamm - ISRA#729
Pat, great answer, but with the cruiser the weight transfer isn't as much as with a standard bike or a sport bike, due to the geometry of the frame. There's alot more weight on the back on a cruiser to start with than most other bike designs, so more stays on the back in braking. Also meaning you have to use even more care with the very powerful disk front brake, specially in less than ideal riding conditions. An advantage of high weight transfer in braking is that the more highly loaded the front wheel becomes, it can proportionally accept more braking without locking. So you can gradually increase the braking effort without locking the brake. Same deal with wet surfaces, takes relatively less brake to lock the wheel.

DEB ISRA #475
'99 Black Classic "Bratbaby"
West Fargo, ND
Just an interesting note: Back when I took my MSF course, I mentioned to the instructor that I had a bad habit of only using the front brake. He said that was much better than only using the back brake.

Jeff
One bit of advice I haven't noticed in this thread (I may have overlooked it) is how to handle a rear wheel lock-up. If you do by some chance lock up the rear wheel, DO NOT get off the brake, particularly if you are moving pretty fast. When the wheel locks, then starts rotating again, you are likely to high-side it. The best thing to do is squeeze the brake harder to make certain it stays locked, then skid to a stop. You may flat-spot the tire, but that's better than flat-spotting body parts.

Bill Hamm - ISRA#729
Jeff, semantics maybe but: You should say press the brake harder, you can't squeeze the rear brake, saying to squeeze it may make some new rider think to squeeze the front more, which would be a bad thing.

Sandy, ISRA #555
Living and riding in Richmond, Virginia
Pygmy, '99 650 V-Star Custom
Really, I have a couple of questions, since the front brake provides 80% and the back brake 20% of the stopping power are the brake peddle/levers set up so that you have to use 80/20 force of do you use the same force on both? When I went down (high sided) in the rain, I didn't have time to do what most of these posts suggest. It was stop this instant or get kissed between two cars, period. Taking evasive maneuvers to the shoulder of the road while trying to stop in a downpour put me on the ground in a heartbeat. I'm not sure what I should have done in my situation or how to brake in a real emergency where you don't have time to slowly "squeeze" the brake till you stop.

Chuck - Minoa, NY (ISRA #886)
'99 Cranberry/Cherry V-Star 1100 "Schweetheart"
Sandy, you make a good point, when the time comes to use the infomation here you really don't have time to think about it. Someone made the comment that what you do in an emergency is the same things you do all the time, this is because of habit. Using both brakes all the time, more pressure on the front, applying the pressure steady and increasing as the tires react to the conditions, etc. Do these as a regular routine and the chances are pretty good that habit will give you the best chance.

Anon-
Sandy, you don't have time to gently squeeze until you've approached the bike's limits. What happened to you is very common. We have to get used to our bikes in all riding conditions, and learn their limits. You were unlucky enough to find one of your bike's limits the hard way. Practicing braking in an empty parking lot (dry and wet) is a good idea for anyone who is either new to riding, new to a particular bike, or just getting back into riding after a break. The unfortunate thing is that you may have done everything right. Sometimes the circumstances we end up in screw us no matter what we do. I'm convinced that the best way to be safer is to ride more. That's the only way to get to know the bike well enough to ride it to its limits when we have to.

Bill Hamm - ISRA#729
Sandy, In the exact same situation, I don't think anyone could have done anything differently. But, if you were riding defensively enough, you'd not have been in that exact situation in the first place. Since you can't brake in wet conditions like you can in dry, you need to allow a lot more room between you and other vehicles. Your emergency braking will likely equal a cars in heavy rain, this is a bunch more distance than you'd achieve in dry conditions. Everyone the grand majority of time, me too, rides not defensively btw, it's not a new thing. Have you ever thought while going around a tight corner, that you can't see all the way around, what you'd do if you came upon a stopped car? The odds are you're going too fast to stop, if the other lane was blocked by oncoming traffic, then you have a real emergency. Same thing for riding in traffic, if the car in front of you suddenly stops, can you stop too? Maybe, maybe not, depends a lot on how close you're following. Knowing what your limits are in all weather conditions may just save your life someday.

Slingsaw
Check out the link for Motorcycle safety tips: http://home.earthlink.net/~jamesdavis/DISCUSS.html

Phil
98' Classic "Eppy"
ISRA #867
Thanks to everyone for their contribution. I have tested many of the suggestions and now feel far more confident to stop in different weather conditions and in the shortest possible distance. Mainly i now know to use the front and back brake in a 65/35 ratio or there-abouts in all conditions. To look even further ahead for up coming hazards and have a better understanding of not only my abilities but the bike and other road users too. Treat everyone else as a complete idiot and you won't be surprised when they try to screw up your day. I'm definitely going to go for an advanced riding course in the near future.

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Looks like another ISRA member was helped out by all the helpful ISRAlites on the forum. If you have ANY quesiton to do with your Star or motorcycling in general, please don't hesitate to ask... It may save your life one day!